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Open vs. Closed Valley: The Debate Continues

2/8/2011

7 Comments

 
I've noticed that sometimes potential clients will ask for a certain type of valley and I always wonder how other roofers sell homeowners on an idea.  I visited a website that commented on an experience that one client had with the closed valley.  I think we can all make one example of anything.  I could name more than just one instance where the open valley failed so warning homeowners of the faults of a closed valley based on one experience is itself faulty and merits no further attention.  Furthermore, the description of the roofing company whose closed valley failed seemed to fit the profile of a fly-by-night roofing company and so I'd have to assume that workmanship and expertise was secondary to making a quick buck.  Moving on, here are a couple of things to think about when deciding open or closed:

-If only putting a layer of ice & water shield is considered insufficient underneath the closed valley, then why would the ice & water be sufficient for the first three feet of roof above the troughs?
Here's what I mean: since ice and snow sits on both of these areas, why should I sell you on the impermeability of ice & water shield on one area but not on the other? If you want to make argument that the joint is a vulnerable spot in the valley then I will tell you that a joint is a joint is a joint and there are many along the first three feet of roof unless your roof is 8' long (or less) on any side.   

-Secondly, metal may facilitate the downward flow of water better than shingles do but when we talk about ice damming (which does occur over metal valley), we're not talking about the downward flow of water.  We're talking about cohesive and adhesive forces that act to "pull" water from melted snow and ice up under the shingles.  Metal valley does not extend more than 8" outward from the valley, whereas shingles can go as far out as you want them to.  (In a closed valley, shingles "wrap" from one side of the valley to another).  I've seen heater cables installed over metal valleys.  I'm sure they are there for a good reason. 

- As I mention on our product page, metal valley will be transported several times to get to the top of your roof.  We've had calls about leaking metal valleys and the culprit would sometimes be a pin-sized hole, damage which is likely to have occurred during transport.  Even the smallest holes do a whole lot of damage.  

If you have any questions or thoughts you'd like to share regarding this topic, please comment.   

More...
7 Comments
michael James
10/13/2011 10:29:33 am

Is a 18" W copper open valley considered a good valley, do they leak, do they hold up for 30 years, etc.... I am considering having a roofing company put them on my house..It is an English cottage style with a double gable and a 12 pitch in the front.
Thanks a bunch,
P.S.

Reply
Linda Pilat
10/14/2011 02:13:38 am

I'm wondering if you're going with a cedar roof since you're asking about copper valley. This is where copper valleys are more often used, although I've seen this with asphalt shingles as well. If you are going with any metal valley, make sure there is an application of ice and water shield underneath. I wouldn't even consider using anything less than 2 feet wide. You have to consider, if you are actually using a shingle, that the shingle is cut 3 to 5 incles away from the center of the valley, leaving only 6 to 4 inches of metal to protect from water travelling latally behind the shingles. Hope this helps!

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Linda Pilat link
11/2/2011 07:33:56 am

A Linda from New Jersey recently called in and asked about the Presidential Shake line from CertainTeed. Although the open valley is recommended by the manufacturer, closed valley is acceptable. The only type of valley that is unacceptable is the woven valley. It is always a good idea to check with the manufacturer or a certified installer of the product, such as ourselves. We don't normally offer this line, although it is available. CertainTeed recommends closed valley for their lifetime Landmarks and 25yr XT lines. Another consideration is the outdoor temperature. I would probably say go with the open valley if your roof is being installed in colder temperatures. Shingles may crack when being manipulated around the valley.

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michael tanner
11/5/2011 02:06:28 pm

I am getting ready to reroof my house. It is an English cottage style with a 12 pitch and 2 gable s in the front. Do you think copper would look good? By the way speaking of looking good....love your picture. Peace, Michael James

Reply
Linda Pilat link
11/6/2011 12:53:11 am

Hi, Michael. Thank you for your comments. I think copper valleys are a matter of individual taste, but since you asked my opinion, I think they look great with slate, cedar, and to a lesser degree, clay shingles. I have seen copper with shingles and I don't really find it attractive. I tried to find some on google images but all I could see was the clay, cedar and slate and some of them looked really good. We did a roof across the street from a house that had shingles with copper valley and I find the most attractive look is still the closed cut valley. It helps also if some of your house has other copper trimming, like those gables you mentioned in the front. If the fascia was copper or your eaves troughs were copper, it may look really nice but also, it may be too much. You'd have to make that decision for yourself. Also, with more copper, the cost becomes a major factor.

Reply
Rami Shalev
8/10/2014 12:46:27 pm

Hi Linda,
Thanks for having this conversation since I have absolutely no knowledge in this subject. We are going to have our roof done in the next couple of weeks. I'm still confused regarding the best way to go regarding the valleys - closed or open??. What would be your recommendations, which is the best for the Toronto conditions?
Thanks.
Rami

Reply
Roofers Elite link
4/2/2017 01:26:25 am

It seems good information yo me. Thanks for sharing your ideas

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